Whore

Lum made a point about a real world-virtual world disconnect for some men leading them to treat women in Second Life like a controllable game construct and then there were the handful of men in the survey about utilizing the services of prostitutes who clearly had attitudes dehumanizing women including that old and extreme view that it is "impossible to rape a whore."

Some men in Second Life will treat a woman who frequently indulges in sex in Second Life as a "whore," not just the "whore" of the titillating bedroom dirty talk, not the "whore" of the escort clubs where women trade sex for Lindens, but as a societal "whore," who, through her actions, or the quantity of them, telegraphs to some men, and women, a message that she is no longer a woman making choices, but a creature for use by any and all. This is not specific to a virtual world. There are girls in real world colleges, high schools, and God help us, junior highs and middle schools, who find themselves in a situation with a male saying something like, "well you're giving it away to everyone else, so why not me?" before being assaulted.

There's a story making the rounds at SLU and SC MKII about an 11-year-old girl who may have been used for sex by as many 18 - 28 men for three days over a period of three months in an abandoned trailer. The girl has been criticized by some people in the community for being promiscuous and dressing and acting provocatively and for having a consensual part in what happened to her, and now, because they have been caught (a video again, natch), what will happen to the men involved.

There is, obviously, a HUGE difference between an 11-year-old girl being so horribly used in real life and a 43-year-old woman playing cybersex games on the internet, I know that and how, but I would argue that there is a common strain between the attitudes of some people surrounding both situations, an attitude shared by both genders.


p.s.
As with Nadia, I wanted to jump through the TV screen and go get this girl and intervene on her behalf. I see that she has been removed from her home and put into foster care. Another tragic and heart-breaking case.


Repost. LeeHere Absent, Mar 10, 2011  http://gotvirtual.net/community/threads/thats-what-she-said.772/page-25#post-33829

Dehumanizing Avatar Operators

Lum said: ↑

Whereas the Joe Wannafuckers she chronicles desire none of those things - they show up in 50L avatars even though they clearly have spent time in SL, hop on a poseball, and expect the most beautiful avatar in the room to service them (and I use that verb intentionally). They see sex in SL not as a mutual exercise but as computer-assisted masturbation, primarily because they do not see others within SL as real, but as constructs within a computer game.

LeeHere Absent said: ↑

He used to IM me asking if I was cybersexing with someone and asking if I would either TP him there so he could watch...

LeeHere Absent said: ↑

... and much more common, are men who IM my sex account asking for the details of my activities. "Just tell me about it. Who have you fucked today and how many? Tell me all the details."

The next question is inevitably...

"Aww, why not?"

Lum's point about some Joe Wannafuckers seeing sex in SL as not "a mutual exercise, but as a computer-assisted masturbation, primarily because they do not see others within SL as real, but as constructs within a computer game," truly does extend to everyone. They aren't just dehumanizing the woman operating the avatar, they're dehumanizing other men operating avatars. I get asked by men all the time to TP them to where I am so they can watch me with the guy I'm with or to abandon the guy mid-dance or mid-stroke or to do something to him or to include the new guy in an MMF or what-have-you. You could chalk it up to horny, rude, competitive, testosterone-driven bullshit, and I'm sure quite a lot of it is, but I think it also falls under Lum's gender-neutral assessment that to some people we are all just "constructs within a computer game."


Repost. LeeHere Absent, Mar 4, 2011 http://gotvirtual.net/community/threads/thats-what-she-said.772/page-17#post-30686

Slippery Slope

I followed some more of Lum's breadcrumbs (he sees LeeHere too, well hell, so do other people) and found this blog post from June 25, 2007 called "What if they gave an orgy, and nobody came? The open scandals of sex in the undercity," that is as relevant to this thread and sex in Second Life as anything written in 2007 about sex or Second Life is, which is to say, extremely relevant. It's written by Lillie Yifu on her Raise the Red Lantern blog which purports to be about the intimate side of Second Sex. We have a First and Second Life, why not a First and Second Sex Life?

(I notice that not only do Lillie and I share some similar perspectives on men and sex in Second Life, but we also share a near complete lack of patience in waiting for everything to rez before taking and posting pictures. Bless her. She also has, however, a penchant for outting people on her blog that I do not share. So be fair warned. She uses condemnations, pics [RL & SL], names, titles, profiles and descriptions of acts. Her last blog post is from December of 2009, so it may be safe to go back into the Adult and Mature waters.)


Edit p.s.:

I see she has another, more current, sex-in-Second Life blog called 2nd Sex that has a posting as recent as December 6, 2010. So if you are chumming the fuck waters of Second Life, beware the watchful stripper in a thong with the flashing camera.

Lum said: ↑

I've talked to Lillie a few times over the years. She's a very smart woman who for whatever reason has chosen an SL career that puts her on the fast track towards meeting some very dumb men, and it's shaded her view towards men in SL. On the other hand, if you read the chat transcripts she puts up, it's not without some justification.

I'm probably gonna go off on a bit of a tangent from your post (and thank you for that), but...

I've noticed, from my own prolific sexual behavior in Second Life, that sliding down that slippery slope to a jaded and uncharitable view of the opposite sex, or I suppose I should say "targeted" sex in order to include all sexual possibilities and preferences, is an occupational (as in "activity in which a person is engaged," not necessarily "professional") hazard. I like to think I do a pretty good job of keeping my perspective and my appreciation of men in general (as a heterosexual female), but the reality is, you can't spend a lot of time engaged in one particular activity and not expect it to have an effect on your personal hard-wiring and that particular activity, casual sex, really skews the sensory input down to something specific and visceral and unfairly unflattering to the larger group being considered. It's just the nature of the beast. I've made a personal choice to actively keep a guarded eye on my own attitudes and not let it completely pervert my thinking, so to speak. All groups of people have assholes and saints and some who are neither but just have their moments.

Lillie and I are both calling people out on their behaviors in our own ways, and while I do hear what you are saying about some justification (hell, I think my own transcripts show some justification, and I did observe her blogging about more serious issues like Adult activities on Mature land as well as public ageplay), I'm not as comfortable with the idea of posting people's full avatar names and pictures and profiles with the behaviors and chat. That's why most of the chat transcripts I post contain scrubbed names like Guy 1 and Guy 2. When I post a pic, I usually either get permission or I scrub the name and identifiers beyond the physical appearance, unless the physical appearance itself is just too much of an identifier.

I have a sex alt. I like the freedom of movement and the anonymity and the ability to experiment and play. I appreciate and respect that for others too. Although, with the two examples I specifically mentioned in Lillie's blog, I can see the value in an "outting" activism, but she's catching regular Joe Wannafuckers in her net with screen prints and such and that makes me twitch.

On the other hand, it did occur to me that someone included in her blog might actually benefit from a reader hitting them up for some casual, meaningless, wannafuck sex. Yeah, I do actually think that way; it's not just how I'm drawn. 

And then every once in a while I meet a man who seems to make a good challenge to the perceptions I'm forming.

Lum said: ↑

She does raise an important point, though, that comes up frequently, and that in SL, there is a line between meaningless, wannafuck sex (which Lillie, as a sometime dancer/escort specializes in) and imposing your will on the unwilling.

While you may enjoy random sex with strangers on your sex alt (or your main for that matter, I won't judge you save behind your back!), I strongly suspect you would have standards. You would expect your prospective partner to meet some minimum standard for physical appearance, ability to complete a sentence, basic creativity, willingness to acknowledge you might have desires of your own, what have you. Whereas the Joe Wannafuckers she chronicles desire none of those things - they show up in 50L avatars even though they clearly have spent time in SL, hop on a poseball, and expect the most beautiful avatar in the room to service them (and I use that verb intentionally). They see sex in SL not as a mutual exercise but as computer-assisted masturbation, primarily because they do not see others within SL as real, but as constructs within a computer game.

That's step 1 of the jacktard scale - step 2 is when you get to mindfuckers who try to get as much RL information as possible, as quickly as possible, because it's the closest thing that delivers the emotional wallop of rape within a virtual environment. And that, too, is entirely too common.

Often people will shoot you an IM that simply says, "ASL." A quick Google search will tell you that they are asking for your Age, Sex and Location, and to be clear, your real-life age, sex and location, or as one contributor to the Urban Dictionary helpfully adds, "What stupid people say on chats to learn who you are and where you live so they can come to your house with a chainsaw and kill you."

Lillie Yifu makes references to "ASLFers." I don't know what that is, though it has a meme-like quality running through her blog a la Prok's "FIC," and reminds me of Pep's frequent comments about "EFLers," but I would hazard a guess that it might refer to someone who immediately asks for your Age, Sex, Location and Fantasy or Fetish. Any other guesses? Perhaps Lum and Orfeu actually know and will enlighten us.

When I'm in Second Life on my Lee account, the answer to ASL is quick, real and simple (it's already on my profile anyway): 43, female, Seattle. (Although I think I have just put that I am in my 40s on my profile so I don't have to update the damn thing every time I have another birthday.)

When I'm in Second Life on my sex account, I sometimes give that question just a little more thought and a lot less simple reality, as the answer could be any number of things, including, but not limited to:

a) None of your damn business.
b) If that is important to you, then we are probably not a good play-date match.
c) Whatever I want it to be, female and Fantasyland or perhaps a slight variation...
d) Over 21, female and right here in Second Life... and to entertain myself with a bit of slutty-sounding sarcasm veiled as a coy come on...
e) What do you want it to be, baby?

My observation is that most of the people who ask ASL expect a real First Life answer and that most people who answer it are giving fantasy Second Life answers. It's an interesting disconnect. (Note that I specifically said "most" and not "all" and that I am qualifying it as my personal observation.)

Sometimes I feel I am being incredibly honest and forthcoming when I reply, "over 21, female and right here in Second Life," as indeed, I am, and on more than one level, but the response I usually get is, "Ha, ha, ha."

colleen Criss said: ↑

I say that too as a rule because they are actually asking colleen Criss ASL , well shes 3 ...shes fem and shes from SL. Past that I have no info I wish to give them. If they don't like that answer *shrugs*

You go, girl. And thank you for adding the Second Life rez-date age. An excellent cover of my egregious omission.

1+
Female
Second Life

Repost. LeeHere Absent, Mar 3, 2011 http://gotvirtual.net/community/threads/thats-what-she-said.772/page-13#post-30293  http://gotvirtual.net/community/threads/thats-what-she-said.772/page-13#post-30325  http://gotvirtual.net/community/threads/thats-what-she-said.772/page-14#post-30341  http://gotvirtual.net/community/threads/thats-what-she-said.772/page-14#post-30423

Small Talk

What do your answers tend to be in response to small-talk questions like these...

1. Tell me about yourself.
2. How are you?
3. What are you doing?
4. What kind of music do you like?
5. Are you alright?
6. What's an avi like you doing in a place like this?
7. Would you like to play?
8. Are you busy?
9. May I join you?
10. How do you like (Second Life, this place, etc.) so far?

And of course...

11. Wanna fuck?


And what kinds of small talk do you engage in? What do you ask?


Repost.  http://gotvirtual.net/community/threads/thats-what-she-said.772/page-13#post-30078

Here's a problem with some of the more basic (and banal) Small Talk, in addition to Lum's laundry, especially if there is no real follow-up plan:


Small Talk

1. Tell me about yourself.
a. What? Why? 
b. You first./After you. 
c. Um, er, uh. 
d. What do you want to know? 
e. Did you read my profile? 
f. Have you got a month?
g. There's nothing to tell.

2.How are you?
a. Good, thanks, and you? I'm, good and how are you? (Beware the inattentive loop.) 
b. I'm well. Every day vertical is a good day. ;-) 
c. I'm depressed and bored and tired and this sim is laggy. 
d. Fine thanks *raised eyebrow* 
e. Do you really want to know, or are you just making small talk?

3. What are you doing?
a. What does it look like? 
b. When? Are you asking me out? 
c. What are you doing? 
d. Why?!?!? Can you see me?!?!? 
e. None of your business. 
f. Having sex. 
g. Learning to play a variety of musical instruments with nothing but the power of my mind. 
h. Nothing. I'm soooooo bored.

4. What kind of music do you like?
a. Stuff that's on my iPod. 
b. Depends. 
c. Um, er, uh. 
d. Whatever you like. 
e. Anything loud with lots of guitar riffs.
f. Blues and technotrance club stuff.
g. Just about anything that drowns out the small talk.

5. Are you alright?
a. Why do you ask? 
b. *puzzled expression* What?
c. Does it seem like something is wrong with me?
d. I think so.
e. Where are you from, again?
f. Better than alright...I'm smokin'!

6. What's an avi like you doing in a place like this?
a. I am not an avi. I am a free woman! 
b. *silence, just staring at the monitor in disbelief* 
c. Why, am I not welcome?
d. Is there something wrong with my avi?
e. Seriously? 
f. Piss off.

7. Would you like to play?
a. No. 
b. Yes. 
c. I have no idea. 
d. What did you have in mind? 
e. Tiddlywinks? Scrabble? Twister? Be more specific!
f. You need to go away now.
g. Sure if you need a pitcher.

8. Are you busy?
a. Yes.
b. No. 
c. It depends. 
d. Most likely. 
e. Quite possibly.

9. May I join you?
a. Yes.
b. No. 
c. Um, I don't even know you. 
d. I'm with someone right now. 
e. I'm glitching. 
f. I'm sorting my inventory and/or building. 
g. I'm washing my hair. 
h. No, I prefer my own company. 
i. I'm on Adult land, so you'll need to be age-verified. 
j. Yes! Awesome. My friends and I will fire up the spit/set up the cross/bring out the gimp. 
k. You'd better check with the missus/hubby/master/mistress, that's his/her seat.

10. How do you like (Second Life, this place, etc.) so far?
a. I'm sooooo bored. 
b. It's laggy as hell. 
c. It's full of assholes. 
d. I dunno. 
e. It's nice, I guess.
f. I like it. It's fun and there's lots to do and see.
g. Fine or I wouldn't be here. 
h. Pretty damned good actually. 
i. *IM window closed right about now and about to click the mute button*

(Also, see Lexxi's responses below.) 

The question becomes, if you start from there, where are you gonna go from there?


Small Talk

Repost. LeeHere Absent, Mar 3, 2011  http://gotvirtual.net/community/threads/thats-what-she-said.772/page-15#post-30476