Saturday, August 6, 2011

What's Wrong With Men?

Moni Duettmann asks, "What's wrong with men?"
"I am close to celebrating my fifth SL birthday soon and I consider myself an open, intelligent, friendly and good-looking person (well, someone else should make that last statement, I know! :-)), but believe me: in all those 5 years I have never met a man who seriously had tried to seduce me. I'm not talking about weirdos jumping into the scene and offering instant f.... I mean decent, romantic, witty, nice, but determined approaches with a goal - to get me laid, or perhaps to start a relationship. Mostly men seem to be content with hearing (reading) themselves talk or, in the vast majority, they don't even try to talk to me, or tge conversations ends after 2 and a half sentences. When interested I always try to steer the conversation into the desired sweet sexy romantic direction, but the men don't seem to "get it". Are they too shy? Are they not interested? Am I not explicit enough (but where is romanticism)? I have been approached by women several times and out of curiosity and lack of men even started a few relationships. But still... I don't get it... Isn't SL the Eldorado for virtual sex? But where is it? Where are the lady killers?"

Well, ya know something like that would tempt a tl;dr style wall o'text from me.

Lee said:

"Fun post.  You got a lot of responses already and I had multiple responses pop into my head too just reading your OP.

First off, I see you say you want either sex or a relationship.  I think your first-mentioned goal, which appears to be a witty, adult, sexy, romantic, fun seduction for sex is a completely understandable one.  It's also a very, very tall, but not impossible order.

Your second-mentioned goal appears to be a witty, adult, sexy, romantic, fun seduction for a relationship.  Also a tall, but not impossible order, although this one is even more complicated.

So breaking it down:

Seduced for romantic sex
Seduced for relationship
Decent, romantic, witty, nice, confident, skilled, determined, assertive
Good listeners
Lady killers
Sometimes women

Wanna**bleep**er sex
Base down-and-dirty quickies
Transmit-only talkers
Shy, insecure, undecided, noncommital

A couple of the things you don't say, though vital to this discussion in a virtual environment is...

First off, what level of importance do you give to the real-life status of the men in Second Life?  I say this because in my experience, which is not some all-encompassing truth, many men in Second Life, particularly mature ones who have some game, have a real-life wife or girlfriend and a Second Life wife or girlfriend and a bunch of Second Life friends with benefits and places they go trawling for snacks and quickies or some combination thereof, and many of the men who are decent, romantic, witty, nice, confident, skilled, determined, assertive or some combination thereof, are often men with, at a minimum, a real-life wife.  So I don't know if the man's real-life relationship status is an issue for you or not.

Also, considering how very, very tall your order is, you don't really say a whole lot about what you are doing.  Where do you go?  Where are you looking?  What do you do?

I have met some men who were seductive, men who might have appealed to you.  Which is actually ironic, because I tend to go into Second Life for one of two things and in one of two mindsets.  1.  Wanna**bleep**er sex.  2.  Sexless fun with friends or on my own exploring.  I don't go into Second Life for wine and dine romance and potential relationships.  

That said, I do end up meeting seductive, charming men who want one or the other or both (romantic sex and romantic relationships) and try to slow me down and get my mind of a dirty quickie or off the exploration of another sim for a blog post.

Here's where I have met the seductive men who can hold a good conversation and make a move.

1.  Lar's Place.  It's a bar for older men and young women, but it got so popular (older men are like diamonds and catnip in SL) that younger men started going there because that's where all the women were.

2.  Third-party SL and virtual world forums like gV, SC MKII, SLU, RLetc, Utherforums, etc.  I've met some charming and articulate and funny men on forums and the friendship has carried over into SL inworld (and sometimes the real world).  

3.  Voice clubs.  (I know that one is sticky, because voice is controversial and not for everyone, but this is a list of where I have met men who are anywhere near like your description and this is where and how I met many of them.  I met one particularly charming man because he was telling stories and jokes in voice and I could hear him and "got him" and I  shot him some funny and appreciative IMs and the next thing I knew he'd swept me off my feet and we were ballroom dancing and I was swooning.)

4.  Introductions from friends.  I also return the favor.

5.  A furry bar.  (I was there as a curious human initially.  Total fish out of water, but open and curious.  I return because there are some nice and intelligent people there.  Many of the furry men I've met tend to favor a kind of old world solicitous affectation that can be quite charming.  My apologies to any furries who might be offended by that description.)

6.  One of the most charming men I've ever met in Second Life (dancing, conversation, dedictated a song to me, serenaded me) I met by accident when I wandered into a BDSM club in the middle of a mall.

7.  Sex sims.  Yeah, sometimes the charming and intelligent guys go there for quickies and you strike a conversation and then next thing you know you've been talking for two hours.

8.  Dance clubs.  Sweethearts Jazz, Bogarts, New York Ballroom, places like that. 

I have found that my own journey, if you will, in Second Life has been one of trial-and-error and distillation.  I know what I want and I am a student of how to get it and I'm pretty good at it now.  But it can be quite a bit of work.

I've actually posted and blogged a lot about my experience as a cybersexer in Second Life and the Utherverse.  If you're at all curious, check it out here:

After five years, I would think you either need to give it up (the two goals) or make some serious changes.  But then I guess that's why you started this thread.

Good luck.

And if some guy IMs you out of the blue and says he's a friend of Lee...say hello and be nice to him, will ya?   :smileywink:"

I actually have more to say on this subject.  No surprise there, eh?  But I'll say it later.  I will leave this teaser. I think Moni could benefit from the old sales cycle and maybe some color training too. :smileywink:



Moni Duettmann said:
"I have to thank everyone for many interesting and insightful answers. Although you don't know me, you have given me enough to think about for a good while. I understand that there is something in the content that has something to do with myself personally. Of course! But the phenomenon I am referring to rather has to do with the flirt approach of my fellow citizens in SL - I think... I don't understand some replies that draw a connection to RL. I am looking for flirts in SL, not RL. And of course all the specifications that count for anything else in SL, count for the romantic part too. I can separate RL and SL easily.
Maybe I have to explain. For me the Second Life experience gets much better with a romantic background. It makes me feel good all the time and makes me want to log in again. I love the playful side of it. How serious it can get depends on the person you do it with. I think RL should be full of love too, but we all know how reality is most of the time for most of the people. In SL romance should sort of be the base of the game, at least that's what I think and expect. Why refrain from it, when you can have it? I know how to spend my time, my life in SL isn't empty at all, I build and script and meet people for all kinds of common activities, but I miss a love that takes care of me. And that's why I often feel like a flower nobody wants to pick. I believe, if men knew what women really want, they would dare much more!"


  1. LOL

    I totally forgot about the G status of the official Second Life forums. That "bleep" was put there for me, not by me. Did not even think about it until I reread the post here and saw that.

    THIS is why I don't post there and only post on 18+ forums and blog sites (for the most part).

  2. Storm's reply:

    "Absolutely nothing and absolutely everything is what's wrong with men.

    I think if men played in this "Eldorado for virtual sex" with the "determined approaches with a goal - to get *you* laid" they would probably 'suck it up' and crawl into bed with their RL wives. Men that 'use' SL as the Eldorado for virtual sex ONLY want to get themselves laid.

    Now the question becomes how men differ from women in 'approach' to attaining that same brass ring: having teh secks.

    I think your OP questions would be better 'suited' if asked in the Ladies Who Lunch' group as the forum is not an appropriate venue. Why? Because you asked a question that invites the public flogging of EVERY heterosexual male by every women, and some men that play women, who may have been spurned by a man.

    Perhaps Richard Parkes could shed some light on your questions, too."

  3. Persephone Emerald said:

    "I don't see why a middle-age or older woman would reject an older man in SL. Our culture trains us to think younger is better, but as long as we look young & cute in SL, why can't we admit to being older, wiser & more experienced in RL?

    Here's a question for they guys: Do you care if that cute, hot, sexy, frisky avatar is actually an overweight, middle-aged woman in RL? And if you do care, why do you care?

    Am I the weird one because I like sweet, geeky teddy-bears, rather than hot, hunky bad boys?"

    I like "sweet, geeky teddy-bears."

  4. Del Westland said:

    "But as for the men being able to say what they really think? That would be a bloodbath for sure since we're outnumbered and outgunned on these here forums."

    "Probably for the same reason a lot of guys want virgins and showroom stickers on new cars. We want new and untainted so we can be the first to taint them ourselves. We don't want our performance to be evaluated against previous guys and we don't want our mistakes and excuses to be too obvious, which isn't a problem because she hasn't heard them all before. Yet.
    You can't fool a cougar as easily."

  5. Celestiall Nightfire said:

    "You want to know the places and situations where I get wooed the most? When in an education sim, or science sim or in a building/scripting competition, etc. Or working diligently on a build, or exploring, etc. I'm approached by men when I'm doing something that interests me, and I'm actively involved in that interest."

  6. Cinnamon Mistwood said:

    "I have to say my experience in SL has been just like this ^^^ I do NOT try to seduce anyone, or steer them anywhere. I, also, discourage any kind of relationship/sex talk I am just friendly with no hint of anything else. They just appear and start talking. Most have been in SL for a while - more than a year or two. Most are in the over 35 crowd (and if everyone was honest right up to 67) These are the *men* I most enjoy speaking with anyway, but I never do more than ask what kind of music they like and if they have a favorite dancing place. I never suggest a 'date'. Usually I don't let the conversation even go there - it is just friendly, intelligent banter. In my experience, it is the men who want to partner. I do not have a place where I find more eligible men than another place. The education sims are good places, so are art galleries and anywhere where there is building going on. On the other hand, if you are just looking for a little fun minus the relationship entanglements, I would suggest a quick trip to Zindra...

    I am not sure being MORE assertive always works, but with so many personality types out there you can find plenty of men that like assertive, take-charge kind of women. Maybe you could try... not trying? Just to see what happens..."

    I sense a theme.

  7. Perrie Juran said:

    "I am confused here. Or maybe it is that I am not sure from her post what exactly it is that Moni wants.

    Are you just wanting to "pixelate," or are you seeking a LTR Moni?

    There are some men in SL who really do care, who aren't here just for the pixel bumping. We value friendships and one thing that we know is one way to kill a friendship with a woman is to jump in bed with her for a 'one night stand.'
    Possibly the problem is that just like your post, that In World you are sending out mixed messages. And believe it or not, men can be very sensitive to that. We prefer to know what is going on, what we are getting into. Emotions know no gender and sex in many ways can open the door to emotional involvement and attachment. So what happens is that many of us men (and I suspect women) become cautious in order to protect our hearts.

    One other thing that I have seen in my four plus years in SL is that it is next to impossible to have a LTR without bringing RL into it. Time and time again I have seen relationships end when one or the other would not cross that bridge. And I have also seen the relationships end when it was discovered who the other person really was in RL. While there are some who have successfully crossed this bridge here, I think it is the exception.

    All these things may matter to the men who you are talking about wanting to jump on poseballs with."

  8. Storm said:

    "An OP that starts: "What's wrong with men?" and the entire conversation focuses on the size of his package - even though he is SLemasculated at birth. You women are brutal! Just brutal! I wrote above that this OP was better suited for the LWL group. Bad things."