Where do YOU think the best place to talk about sex in Second Life is and why?

I asked this question on the official Second Life Forum (SLF), SLUniverse (SLU) and gotVirtual (gV) this week and probably about a year or more ago on RLetc.

This is the question in more detail.

"Where are the best places (blogs, forums, websites, sims, etc.) to talk about sex in Second Life among adults with a frank and open discussion and information that is updated and kept current? Topics might include prim genitalia, etiquette, how-to for newbies, fetishes, paraphilias, NSFW & XXX content, sex sims, sex products, etc. And why? (Why is that the best place?) The question came up in the "Finding Current Info on SL Sex" thread on SLF and I thought it might be interesting to get comments and referrals and maybe collect them into a helpful resource list. Thank you in advance and apologies for dupes."

I say it came up in that thread, and it did, but the truth is, I've been looking for a forum in which to have conversations with topics like the ones in this blog for about two years.  It has turned out to be a slightly more complex question that I had first thought it would be.

Anyway, here are some of the answers I received.

I'll start with the helpful, direct link type answers.

1. SLUniverse (SLU).  Multiple votes for this forum, some qualified.  There are restrictions on content and many people have complained about judgmental or joking responses, but you do have the advantage of a large group of tenured and knowledgeable Second Life residents who can answer many product and tech questions.
2. The "Let's Make Sexy Time!" Social Group on SLUniverse.  Eighty-seven threads, current content, some sex and a lot of humor and poking and joking around.
3. The "BDSM Interest group" Social Group on SLUniverse.  Three hundred seventy-four threads, current content, a lot of sex and helpful discussions about Second Life sex products and places.  More straight answers and acceptance and less joking and poking in this Social Group.  I would feel comfortable recommending this Social Group to people wanting a venue for discussing sex in Second Life.
4. gotVirtual (gv).  Multiple qualified votes for this forum.
5. The official Second Life forum (SLF).  Multiple votes with qualifiers.  This is the company's product forum, it includes teens and it is PG.  You can't use vulgar language like "fuck" and you cannot post nude or lewd pics.  You do have the advantage of a large group of tenured and knowledgeable Second Life residents who can answer many product and tech questions.  My observation has been that a person asking questions on SLF is likely to get inworld IMs offering help too.
6. BDSM forum inworld sim.  Multiple votes for this place.
7. Xcite!  Xcite! is a Second Life product site.  Good information specific to their product line.
8. Between two consenting adults.  Multiple votes.
9. A couple of people said they did not want to share what they had managed to learn on their own the hard way.
10. This blog right here.

It was in the "BDSM Interest group" Social Group that I found this helpful stickied thread about the rules on SLU regarding adult content.

Cristiano said on SLU...

"A reminder about NSFW images and thread titles"

"If the image contains nudity or is otherwise sexually explicit, it must not be posted inline with IMG tags or attached to the post. You must link to the image. Courtesy would also be to warn that the image is NSFW. If you are uncertain if an image is NSFW, err on the side of caution and assume it is."

"Please also be conscious of the content of your thread titles. While users do have the ability to ignore forums, and the group forums are viewable only by registered users, there is no ability to filter out forums on iSpy and the titles do appear some other places as well. Thank you for your cooperation with this policy. I try to provide as open of an environment as possible and I have nothing against the images or topics personally, but I do have the needs of the entire forum community, advertisers, and the policies of my ISP to keep in mind."

Nimue Jewell said on SLU...

"Keep in mind, even though the topics are adult in those subforums, you are not allowed to post naked SL or RL pictures."

I nabbed a couple of the more in-depth comments.

Ishtara Rothschild said on SFL...

"Actually, I think that is forum is a great place to talk about sex. It might seem counter-intuitive considering LL's PG rule and the relatively high level of moderation, but I've found that when it comes to adult topics, only posts with very explicit language are getting moderated. Which can be a boon rather than a bane, because it helps keep the discussion on a civilized level. We have discussed even the most controversial topics here in the past, such as age play, BDSM (including edgeplay), or zoophilia. This doesn't seem to be possible over at SLU, where people who disagree with the vocal majority (which is surprisingly conservative when it comes to sex; SLU is a place where gays and liberal atheists rage against aberrant forms of sexuality in a way that would make a Baptist preacher jealous) are met with vigorous personal attacks and the most hateful and rude language. That's exactly the kind of thing that gets deleted here, and this forum is a better place for it imho. At SLU, everything seems to be about moral outrage. A member of the in crowd starts a finger pointing thread (bruised skins and "Rape me" tattoos, OMG, how can LL allow this!) and everyone joins in the bashfest. That is not a discussion, it's a lynch mob in a feverish circle j***. Those who dare to disagree are torn to pieces and will be bullied in all future threads no matter what they post. I'd rather participate in a forum where I can speak my mind as long as I'm willing to self-censor a bit and use medical schoolbook terms or romanticized language rather than colloquialisms."

Knowl Paine said on SLF...

"The best place is with your partner(s). Second Life can be a journey, a path for discovery. I prefer to choose my own adventure. Sexual sophistication, is far from first on my list of ideal characteristics and traits of a desirable partner. The second best place to discuss functionality of a product or attachment is with the Creator or seller of the product. The Resident who made it, probably knows how the item works. A Group for helping Residents in the Region Kuula, has a public Show-n-Tell event, the content must be General maturity rating but a format like that for sex in SL would be beneficial."

squashy Beeswing said on SLF...

"You could dish out notecards periodically with how-to guides and best practice. "

Orfeu said on gV...

"I think of the forums, gv is prolly the best fit. We do have a slight habit of constant de-rails....rather than substantive discussion here...but one can hope. Other than that....your "Thats what she said" blog, also seems to fit the bill admirably."

Saffy Pants said on gV...

"I am not sure any of them are any use for talking about SL sex. The ones that allow it are populated by people who aren't interested and the ones populated by people who are interested don't allow it. The official forum is obviously the place because it has loads of newbies who would love some sex education but as you say it would be like sex education in school with the real stuff censored out. I did my share of sex in my early SL days but I never really found anyone who could understand the kind of atmosphere I needed to create. I havent tried anything for a long time but poseballs and devices did nothing for me with the exception of Devotion and I got worn out having to do all the talking."

Additional information.

1. Some pretty damn frank conversations about sex can be had in the Utherverse forums, but it is a company product site, so it's not really the right place for conversations that include Second Life or other virtual worlds.  Also, the Springerville and troll quotients are very high in that place.
2. There is a Gorean Forum specific to Second Life and it is active and current.
3. KingGoon Forums.
4. The Alphaville Herald has a 'Sex, Cybersex and Beyond' section
5. 2nd Sex.  It's a blog by Lillie Yifu.  Described as follows: "A blog on sex and virtual worlds by a virtual escort." Current content.  Not as much sex as you might think given the description and blog title.
6. The Sleaze King of Second Life.  A blog by Hard Rust, the creator of Hard Alley in Second Life.
7. Second Life porn star blogs.  Definitely adult content.
1. Emmanuelle Jameson's Second Life.  A blog by the avatar formerly known as "Jennnnna Jameson."  Lots of sex.  Lots of erotic Second Life sex pics. 
2. My Twisted Second Life: Diary of A Naughty TGirl.  A blog by Ivori Faith.  Sex from the second you click through the mature-content warning.
3. Serenity And Arwen PornStar Files.
4. Quinn Ying in Second Life.

Links:
http://community.secondlife.com
http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Lifestyles-and-Relationships/bd-p/lifestyles_relationships
http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Lifestyles-and-Relationships/Where-do-YOU-think-the-best-place-to-talk-about-sex-in-Second/td-p/1086709
http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Lifestyles-and-Relationships/Finding-Current-Info-on-SL-Sex/td-p/1081169
http://www.sluniverse.com
http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/lets-make-sexy-time/
http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/bdsm-interest-group/
http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/general-sl-discussion/64052-where-best-places-talk-second.html
http://gotvirtual.net
http://gotvirtual.net/community/threads/where-are-the-best-places-to-talk-second-life-sex-mature-nsfw.2546/
http://gotvirtual.net/community/threads/thats-what-she-said.772/
http://gotvirtual.net/community/threads/the-naughty-thread-pics-vids-etc-there-will-be-nudity.410/
http://www.getxcite.com/
http://forums.utherverse.com
http://goreanforums.net/
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Can_we_have_sex
http://sexsecond.blogspot.com
http://alphavilleherald.com/news/sex-cybersex-and-beyond
http://jennnnnajameson.blogspot.com
http://ivorifaith.blogspot.com
http://quinnying.blogspot.com
http://sereandarwen.blogspot.com
http://hardrust.blogspot.com
http://www.kinggoon.net/

Why Men Use Prostitutes

This is a January 2010 article about why men pay to have sex with prostitutes:

Why men use prostitutes

The reasons why many men pay for sex are revealed in the interviews that make up a major new piece of research

Read the research project's report on men who buy sex (pdf)

One of the most interesting lines in the article:

In fact, many of the men were a mass of contradictions.

Research published in 2005 found that the numbers of men who pay for sex had doubled in a decade. The ­authors attributed this rise to "a greater acceptability of commercial sexual contact", yet many of our ­interviewees told us that they felt ­intense guilt and shame about paying for sex. "I'm not satisfied in my mind" was how one described his feelings after paying for sex. Another told me that he felt "disappointed – what a waste of money", "lonely still" and "guilty about my relationship with my wife".

God, what a tangled web we weave in this complex society of ours.

The article goes on to say that a couple of men in the survey said that the only way to end prostitution would be to "kill all the girls" or "lock up" all the men. Most acknowledge that hard-core real-life consequences like public exposure, monetary penalties and jail time would put a pretty big damper on prostitution. One thing that would not, however, would be knowledge that the working girls were participating under duress. But that's real life, right? Everyone in Second Life is making a proactive, premeditated, consensual choice, yes? Second Life is a relatively guilt-free environment, no?

Many men seemed to want a real relationship* with a woman and were disappointed when this didn't develop: "It's just a sex act, no emotion. Be prepared to accept this or don't go at all. It's not a wife or girlfriend." ­Others were clear that they paid for sex in order to be able to totally control the encounter, including Bob, who said, "Look, men pay for women because he can have whatever and whoever he wants. Lots of men go to prostitutes so they can do things to them that real women* would not put up with."

*emphasis added

There are 335 comments to that article, including these:

to divulge a bit more, probably close to a billion men alive today have paid for sex. Interviewing a few and analyzing the results in this way is completely meaningless.

Can't say I sympathise with the attitudes of most of the men described above and I've honestly never even been tempted to use a prostitute - at a guess I'd say I'm more representative of the male population than any of the interviewees.

Article comes nowhere close to understanding men's need for sex.
When will women start to ask " what do men want?"
The worse thing here is the guit they feel - maybe this is the real problem. Should be prefectly acceptable for these men to pay for sex i fthey can't get in their relationships without having this destructive guiilt hype foisted upon them
Most prostitues seem to operate without feelings of guilt and exploit these men financially
Suspect that 100% will have paid for sex one way ot another at some point in their lives

And a man citing Freakonomics and the benefit of pimps.

And an otherwise content escort sick of hearing about the dark and extreme end of her chosen profession.

From the survey report itself:

One interviewee explained, “There’s an intimacy in all sex, even if it’s only a small part of sex and if you give it away to loads of men there’s not much left. It’s about giving a piece of yourself away and there’s not much left.”

...he still seeks to convince himself that she both likes him and is sexually aroused by him.

Nonetheless they are disappointed and often feel “tricked” by what they know is the woman’s simulation of emotional and sexual response.

More than one-half of the interviewees confirmed they were in a relationship at the time they used women in prostitution. this contradicts the common misperception that men buy sex because they are lonely or have no partners.

http://www.eaves4women.co.uk/Documents/Recent_Reports/Men Who Buy Sex.pdf

Orfeu Miles said: ↑

Having had escort pals in RL....might I make the point, that if you put enough money in their hands....they WILL be fully satisfied.
(Joking...but...um....not really)

Actually, funnily enough, that's one of the points of the survey I mentioned (and posted the link) about how some men assumed satisfaction on the part of the prostitute and how some other men resented it.

Orfeu Miles said: ↑

My anecdotal evidence from my escort pals...was they considered it unprofessional to REALLY get off on the encounter.....although they admitted that it sometimes happens...1 in a hundred times...in some cases 1 in a thousand....the nature of the male ego...every guy thinks he is THAT guy. 

Every Carnal exchange between a man and a woman involves an exchange of energy...it could be affection...love...lust...time...attention...money...or even friendship....the prostitute/client relationship just exists within tightly defined parameters. 

I try not to heap judgement on it...its just yet another flavour...and er a pretty old one at that.

I hear ya.


Another interesting part of that survey, brought to mind by your comment about "THAT guy," is that some men admitted to lying to their friends about their experiences with prostitutes, either falsely telling other men they'd had sex with a prostitute without her demanding payment or trying to pass off an attractive prostitute as a real-life girlfriend.


Yes, and I'm struck by how many people, man or woman, will sometimes, maybe even often, feel depressed afterwards.

either falsely telling other men they'd had sex with a prostitute without her demanding payment

Orfeu Miles said: ↑

Male ego...out of control....an everyday tale...

LOL

We've got some tales of female egos running rampant too.


I see a lot of this dynamic in Second Life. A lot.

Orfeu said:  I like the phrase." A judgment free friendship"

For many men...sex is the premier gateway to intimacy.

What is Intimacy. ???Why do we crave it.???

I once heard it described...as wanting to see....and be seen.Hmm could be something in that I guess.

A witness that I am alive...that I was here...that someone touched me...and that I touched someone's life.
Plausible ???

That's what some people say about marriage (and LTR-commitment). It's making sure you have a witness to your life. 

Disproportionate Anecdotal Evidence of Something...Special

Orfeu Miles said: ↑

My own totally subjective ...non-researched conclusion...is that sl is FULL of people with mental-health problems...this stirs my compassion...but not my desire to wanna get to know you better. 

Ishtara said: ↑

There are sane people in Second Life? Wow. I never met any of those 

Yeah, well that's one of the Second Life cultural chestnut jokes for a reason, isn't it?

Orfeu and I agree that there seems to be a lot (anecdotally disproportionate even) of people with mental and physical health issues in Second Life, and the virtual world forums attached to Second Life, who are drawn to Second Life and the forums because of a number of reasons, but often because they can do things in Second Life and the forums they cannot do, or cannot do easily, in First Life.

I think Orfeu might agree with me, however, that there are delightful people you meet and happily get to know in Second Life who inform you that they have mental health issues, whether it be bipolar disorder or social anxiety disorder or some kind of gender dysphoria and then there are people who, to put it in crass layman's language born out of frustrated experience, are batshit fucking crazy and toxic as hell who you do not want to get near with a ten-meter-pixel pole, let alone get to know. It's like the example Cody and Orfeu and I discussed earlier about the profile with the likes and dislikes. There's a qualitative difference in tone and effect that makes all the difference.

The realization, again, I know I'm speaking anecdotally, that there was such a significant mental health component to virtual worlds and their forums, got me really interested in that teeth-in, curiosity kind of way. I'm fascinated. I've done a lot of layman's research on the subject and have done some exploration in Second Life with that sole interest in mind. Orfeu, for example, directed me to a place in Second Life in which, not only could you read about schizophrenia, but you could "experience" it through the scripted activities you could try. I've got some screen shots and links. I'll bring 'em over and post 'em. Anyway, I obviously have a lot more to say on this subject. So you know what's coming.

At any rate, one thing I do want to be clear about, is that I'm not driven to reduce my sphere of friends and acquaintances to those with "perfect" physical and mental health. One, that would be impossible and two, it would be foolish and I would miss out on so much. I do, however, have a healthy radar for toxicity and I have a healthy sense of self-preservation.


Repost. LeeHere Absent, Mar 5, 2011   http://gotvirtual.net/community/threads/thats-what-she-said.772/page-20#post-31121

Alt Accounts & Secret Lives

Orfeu said:

"I am kinda curious about the whole 'Sex Alt" thing.

Take the case of Lee . ...coughs...blinks...

Ok.. I get it, that this alt is anonymous....maybe engages in the odd activity, that you wouldn't want to be associated with your main etc etc.

But if you then go on a forum, and write in some depth about her....um.....playtime....and we all read it as Lee activities.....then I am not sure what you gained.

Yeah...ok...I dont know this alts name (worse luck)...and will prolly never meet her...but when I read about her exploits...I am basically thinking, this is Lee doing all this.

This is not a criticism...I love reading your reports from the trenches....I am just genuinely curious about the benefits of the anonymous sex alt. "

Repost. Orfeu Miles, Mar 4, 2011 http://gotvirtual.net/community/threads/thats-what-she-said.772/page-18#post-30743 

Ohh, I think you're missing the point, Orfeu. If this is what I'm willing to tell you then...

And thank you. Very much. 

Part of it is that my rabbit hole does go deeper. This thread is not a "tell-all" despite appearances to the contrary.
Part of it is a sense of freedom that I have when I'm not "me."
Part of it is that the people I interact with on the two different accounts tend to be very different and I'm happy keeping them separate.
Part of is it a protection of both my play partners and me.
Part of it is that I'm aware that forums may be totally public and forever, but the readership is actually a fairly small pool of people and many not very motivated to make an issue of what I'm writing in here in a meaningful, beyond-the-forum kind of way.
Part of it is that I enjoy a certain amount of risk and playing close to the line.
Part of it is pure account management. My sex alt account is almost unmanageable as it is.

And part of it is...some people can get a little weird if they do acquire that knowledge about me.

Does that clarify anything for you, Orfeu?

Reposts. LeeHere Absent, Mar 4, 2011  http://gotvirtual.net/community/threads/thats-what-she-said.772/page-19#post-30755

Orfeu Miles said: ↑

Yep...all is now admirably clear.
Risk is fun....couldn't agree more...kinda thing that needs to be well managed ( which I never seem to do)..but a whole heap of fun. 

Excellent. Thank you.

Orfeu Miles said: ↑

...I dont know this alts name (worse luck)...and will prolly never meet her...

I think the interesting question is, since you know me, why do you want to meet "her"? 

Orfeu said: ↑

Well...since we first met...we fell into the friends (no benefits) category...and I actually like that. 

As I have told you, finding a partner to cyber with is WAY easier than finding someone you can have an engaging series of conversations with.
To meet her, would surely put our friendship at risk.

but
er
um
"Part of it is that I enjoy a certain amount of risk and playing close to the line."

Ya see what I did there ?? 

Who's fault was that? 

Good. I agree wholeheartedly.

Ohhhhhh definitely.

Repost. LeeHere Absent, Mar 4, 2011 http://gotvirtual.net/community/threads/thats-what-she-said.772/page-19#post-30839